Да, мы не имеем какого-либо свидетельства об утрате части Гат, и в Младшей Авесте они указаны по названиям частей. QUOTE(Jain @ 16.03.2005, 11:10) ?з первых двух утверждений (а в общем-то, и из одного первого) следует, что ничего, что принадлежало бы непосредственно Заратуштре и не содержалось бы в Гатах, нет. |
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The Gathas and the Younger Avesta: The Continuum This article is reposted to remove the faulty premise that "the Gathas are the only scriptures of Zoroastrianism and later Avesta are concocted by the priests and should be discarded." This is promoted adnauseam by cultic followers of an islamized-zoroastrian belief known as 'jaffreyism', with churning out their faked translation of the Gathas and manipulation of the Young Avestan text. Pallan -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Gathas, together with vast Avestan literature suffered two major catastrophes, It happened when the last achemenid emperor Darius was defeated and the accursed Alexander burnt the Zoroastrian scriptures and again in 650 CE, the restored scriptures were destroyed by invading Arabs. The extant Gathas that we have inherited, are the fragmented and truncated parts of the original extensive ones. The original corpus had exegesis written in prose after each poetic verse. This can be seen in the statement from Yasna 57.6 where the Sraosha Yazata is alluded as the first to recite five Gathas of Zarathushtra in prose and poetry with exegesis. The extant Gathas have verses which are so abrupt from each other and lack smooth flow of the thoughts and ideas from one verse to another, and are not like RgVedic verses which are systematically connected to one another in an orderly fashion. But one must note that each verse of the Gathas is complete in itself. Of special interest is the lost teachings of Zarathushtra from the Gathas which are fortunately preserved in the Later Avesta. Numerous examples can be sighted (see my previous postings). I have previously pointed out that sequential mentioning of the Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds, the bedrock of Zarthushtra's teachings is missing from the Gathas but can be seen for the first time in the Yasna Haptanghaiti, the prose text in the gathic language now generally taken as the composition of the prophet himself and where Ahura Mazda is addressed as the blessed, abundant YAZATA (Y41.3), and worshipped. The Avestan word for worship is "YAZAMAIDE" (Y37.1). These two words 'Yazata' and 'Yazamaide' not only occur in Old Avestan Yasna Haptanghaiti but in every paragraphs of the extant Young Avestan scriptures. Another important example that can be sighted is the absence of the idea of body resurrection in the Gathas which is so fundamental to Zoroastrianism and must have been the integral part of the Zarathushtra's teachings. This teaching is lost in the Gathas but preserved in Zamyad Yasht, paragraph 19 (Yasht 19 of the younger Avesta) (see Humbach-Ichaporia, Zamyad Yasht, Text, Translation and Commentary, Harrassowitz, 1998) and in Vendidad 18,51 (Cf. Albert de Jong, Traditions of the Magi, 1997). In order to emphasize the above fact, let us begin by giving the thoughts from the Gatha Ahunavaiti which are alluded and expanded in the later Avesta. This article will amply show that ideas in the Younger Avesta flow from the Gathas, disproving many erroneous notions floated to perspicaciously undermine non-gathic scriptures by some in propagating that Zoroastrianism is found only in the Gathas, and rest of Avesta has historical value only, and should be discarded. Another faulty idea we often come across, is that the religion of Zarathushtra has no need for rituals and priests. If all these wrong premises are accepted, then we will witness unimmaginable destructive results which will exceed the devastation brought by invading Arab in 650 CE. Zoroastrians and particularly our children who fall for such reformistic teachings will put themselves at the great risk and will hasten the end of their religion, their traditions and their rituals which have survived three millennia. Let us examine the Gathic ideas and lost Gathic teachings found in the Younger Avesta - All the citations are from Ahunavaiti Gatha. Ahnavaiti Gatha Y28.9: 'yoi ve yoithema daseme stutam' We who are standing at offering of praises to you (Ahura Mazda) The above is expanded in non-gathic Yasna 11.9: 'We are standing and offering one, two, three, four, five six, seven, eight, nine times praises to you (Ahura Mazda)' Ahunavaiti Gatha Y28.11: "O Mazda Ahura, teach me with your mouth, in accordance with your spirit, how ... the first existence came into being?" Question: How this first existence came into being? Answer: Answer is not found in the Gathas. No explanation given anywhere in the Gathas. Answer and explanation are lost (one can find both in Hormazd Yasht 1.26). Answer: From Hormazd Yasht, pargraph 26 (Yasht 1,26): 'Through my (i.e. Ahura Mazda) wisdom and intelligence the first existence came into being" One can refer to Ahunavaiti Gatha Ha 30.4 to complete the understanding of the end of such existence: Ahunavaiti Gatha Y30.4: "... and in this manner the existence will be in the end" Question: How-(in this manner)? Answer: The answer comes from above citation in Hormazd Yasht i.e. through Ahura Mazda's wisdom and intelligence the existence will end Ahunavaiti Gatha Y28.4 "For as long as I can and able I shall look out in search for truth" Same is reflected in Frang i Om, 4: "I must search for truth as long as I am able" Ahunavaiti Gatha Y30.10 "For then destruction will come down upon deceit through its elimination" Further explained in the Westergard Avestan Fragments (name Westergard is attached because he descovered these fargments): 'The destruction and deceit both will be eliminated'. Ahunavaiti Gatha Yasna 30.11 'O you mortals, when you observe the rules that Mazda has established for good behavior and about where not to go, and when you consider the long-lasting harm which is (in store) for the deceitful, and also the benefits for the truthful, then (you will realize) by those (rules) the things desired will be there' Question: Which are these rules? Answer: Answers not found in the Gathas but is preserved in Vispered 13.1 Answer: (From Vispered 13.1) "These rules are: The reverence for the Manthras (Holy Words), Amesha Spentas and the sayings of Zarathushtra, and these (rules) are for the benefits of truthful" Ahunavaiti Gatha Y31.18a '... manthrascha gushta sasnaoscha" "... listen to your manthras and teachings" Here Zarathushtra wants "No adherent of the deceitful LISTEN TO YOUR MANTHRAS AND TEACHINGS" Question: Who was the first to listen to Zarthushtra's teachings and manthras"? Answer: The Gathas have lost the answer but the answer is saved in the Younger Avesta, in Fravardin Yasht, paragraph 95 (Yasht 13.95). Answer: (From Fravardin Yasht, paragraph 95): "Maidyoimaonghahe arstyehe ... yo paoriyo Zarathsushtrai manthemcha gsuta sasnaoscha" "(The truthful) Maidyoimah s/o Araste was the very first to listen to the manthras and teachings of Zarathsuhtra" Question: Was there any other man who listened to God's manthras and teachings? Answer: Lost in the Gathas but we have an answer from the Fravadin Yasht paragraph 87: "Gaya Merethan (the first mortal) who first listened to God's manthras and teachings" Please take a note that Gaya Merethen was never alluded as the messenger of God in the manner as the Prophet Zarathushtra is known (Please note here there is no question of Gaye Merethen listening to Zarthushtra's teachings and manthras which Zarathushtra heard from Ahura Mazda, because Gaya Merethan predates Zarathushtra but Gaya Merethan had listened to God.) Ahunavaiti Gatha Y31.20 "long period of darkness, foul food and word 'woe' - to such an existence, your religious views will lead you, O deceitful ones, because of your actions" Question: Are there any particular deceitful ones? Answer: No answer is found but such answer is elaborated in the Vendidad Fragard 5, paragraph 62 "... the heretics because of their religious views and because of their actions will be lead to dark existence" Further expansion of this Gathic idea is in Vendidad Fragard 7, paragraph 22: "O dceietful heretic ones, your actions and your religious view will lead you ultimately to worst existence" Ahunavaiti Gatha Y32.2: "We choose your holy and good right-midedeness (Armaity). Let it be ours" Further reflected in Yasna 12.2 "Let holy and good right-minedednes (Armaity) be mine" Ahunvaiti Gatha 32.6; "hata-marane" = "You who remember" (this is about Ahura Mazda) Further cited in Hormazd Yasht as Ahura Mazda's sixteenth name: "hata.marenis" = "He who remembers" Ahunavaiti Gatha Y32.15: "The (truthful) will be cared by these two (integrity and immortality) in the house of good thought" In Vendidad 3.29 and Vistasp Yasht 35 the same idea is alluded: "He/she will be taken care of, by his/her attainment of good name" (the good name comes from being righteous). Ahunavaiti Gatha Y33.1 "the staightest action following the laws of first existence" Question: Which are the laws of first existence? Answer: Only found in the following Young Avestan Yasna 54.2, Yasna 55.6, Yasna 58.9, Yasna 59.33 and Yasna 71.18: "the strightest action" is "Stoat Yasnas and Stoat Yasnas are the laws of first existence" Ahunavaiti Gatha: Y33.6: where Zarathushtra declares himself as a priest: 'ye zaota asha arezus' (Zarathushtra) "As a leading priest strightforward in truth" Zarathustra's priesthood is further confirmed in young Avesta "Khordad Yasht, paragarph 4 (Yasht 4,5)" "ye zaota Zarathushtro" = Zarathushtra who is the leading priest" In Avesta "Zaota" = leading or first officiating priest, Pahlavi "Zot" (zwt), Gujerati "Joti" Ahunavaiti Gatha Y33.7: "(O Mazda) with truth and good thoughts for which I (i.e. Zarathushtra) am heard far beyond the faithful offereres. Let the bright reverantial gifts be manifest among us" The same idea is alluded in Vendidad 17.7 "O Zarathushtra, with truth and good thoughts you are heard far beyond" Further in Pursishniha 36 "Let reverential gifts become evident to us" (Pursishniha is a Pahlavi book where questions are asked and answers are given). Ahunavaiti Gatha: Y34.5 "... We have declared you (i.e. Ahura Mazda) to be superior to all 'daevas' (false gods), beasts, and (evil) mortals" Further elaborated in Yasna 19.2 and Yasna 19.4: "Superior to sky, superior to water, superior to land, superior to fire, superior to righteous men, superior to evil men, superior to 'daevas' (false gods), beasts, and superior to all" Note: Here Ahura Mazda is superior to all including righteous men, which is not alluded in the Gathas. It is definite that this expanded praise for Ahura Mazda is lost in the Gathas and found intact in non-Gathic Yasna. Ahunavaiti Gatha Y34.7 "... In Truth, I do not know any other than you, so protect us" In Non-Gathic Yasna 58,5 we find this idea expanded: "(O Ahura Mazda) You protect us, protect Amesha Spentas, protect good rulers" When the Gathas say that "let good rulers rule over us" they do not specifically indicate male and female rulers, which is only alluded in Yasna Hapatanghaiti "Let good rulers, male and female rule over us." Even more of this is seen in the Younger Avesta Y58.5, where protection for such good rulers is requested. Ahunavaiti Gatha, Y30.9: "Thus may we be those who make existence brilliant" Ahunavaiti Gatha Y34.15: "Through your power make real existence brillaint in value" Question 1: Who are "those"? Gathas do not elaborate. Question 2: Is there anything else which will make existence brilliant in value. (Answer is lost in the Gathas) Answer 1: (1) From Yasht 19.11 (Zamyad Yasht) "The victorious benefactors will make the existence brilliant" (saoshyantam verethrajanem = victorious benefactors) (2) From Yasht 13.9 (Fravadin Yasht): "The benefactors make existence brilliant" (3) FromYasht 19.9 (Zamyad Yasht): The Amesha Spentas will give existence which is brilliant in value' (Amesha Spenta are the six emanations of Ahura Mazda; and these are Good Thought (vohu manah), Truth (asha), Good Dominion (vohu xshthra), Holy Right Mindedness (spenta armaiti), Integrity (haurvatat) and Immortality (ameretat). Answers 2: We find the answer to Question 2 in the Younger Avesta Non-Gathic Yasna 55.8: "Staota Yesniya which get the existence (which is) brilliant in value" Explanation: Staota Yesniya (plural), the parts of Yasna liteurgy will also make the existence brilliant in value i.e. by constantly praying Staota Yesniya and following prophet's teachings "Ferasha" = "brilliant" is the Gathic word. The Young Avesta word is 'Frasha' = "brilliant" This idea of 'frasha' is very well depicted in Zamyad Yasht paragraph 10, "Ahura Mazda created the creatures, many and good, many and wonderful, many and brilliant (frasha), many and bright" (see Humbach-Ichaporia "Zamyad Yasht", 1998) In Vendidad Fragard 1 and Paragraph 20, "frasha = brilliant" is said of places "lands and regions, beautiful, deep, esteemed, brilliant and bright" Above are the citations from Ahunavaiti Gatha elaborated, and expanded in the Younger Avesta. We will explore the remaining Gathas from time to time to show you, dear readers the real value of our Young Avestan Scriptures which include non-Gathic parts of Yasna, the Yashts, Vispered, Vendidad, Niyaeshes and Avestan fragments. (All the Gathic translations are from Humbach-Ichaporia, "The Heritage of Zarathushtra, A New Translation of His Gathas, Heidelberg University, 1994, (Second edition in the Press). Translation from Zamyad Yasht is from - Humbach-Ichaporia, "Zamyad Yasht, Yasht 19 of Young Avesta, Text, Translation and Commentary, Harrassowitz, 1998.) The Continuum of Gathic Teachings in the Younger Avesta - Part II Dear members: We will now examine the teachings of Ushtavaiti Gatha and its continuum in the Younger Avesta and the Pahlvi texts. Ushtavaiti Gatha 43.2 ... vangheus mayao manangho THE BLESSINGS OF GOOD THOUGHT Non-Gathic Yasna 10.12 ... te baeshaza irrathare vangheus THY REMEDIES ARE LINKED WITH THE BLESSINGS OF GOOD THOUGHT Ushtavaiti Gatha Y43.7 hyat ma vohu pairi jasat manangha WHEN ONE ATTENDS ME WITH GOOD THOUGHT (here 'me' is Ahura Mazda) Non-Gathic Yasna 60.12 (also Hoshbam prayer) daresame thava pairi thava jamyama WE WISH TO SEE YOU AND WE WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND YOU (here "you" is for Ahura Mazda) Ushtavaiti Gatha Y43.8 ...thava ... staomi ... ufiacha I PRAISE AND EXTOL THEE Non-Gathic Yasna 17.18 staomi zbayemi ufiemi I PRAISE, CALL AND EXTOL (Thee) Fravardin Yasht 13.15 ko no stavat ko yazayte ko ufiat WHO WILL PRAISE, WHO WILL WORSHIP, WHO WILL EXTOL? Ushtavaiti Gatha 44.3 ke ya mao uxshyeiti nerefsaitti thavat THROUGH WHOM THE MOON WAXES AND WANES? Meher Yasht 7.2 (in detail) kat mao uxshyeiti, kat mao nerefsaitti, panchadasa mao uxshyeiti, panchadasa mao nerefsaitti HOW LONG THE MOON WAXES? HOW LONG MOON WANES? FIFTEEN (DAYS) MOON WAXES, FIFTEEN (DAYS) MOON WANES. Ushtavaiti Gatha 44.10 tam daenam ya hatam vahista THAT RELIGION (OR RELIGIOUS VIEW) WHICH IS THE BEST FOR THOSE WHO EXIST Reinterpretation in Fravardin Yasht 13.91 daenayai yat haitinam vahistayai THE RELIGION (OR RELIGIOUS VIEW) WHICH IS THE BEST AMONG THE EXISTING (RELIGIONS OR RELIGIOUS VIEWS) Ushtavaiti Gatha Y44.13 katha drujem nisa ahmat nish nasma HOW CAN WE DRIVE DECEIT OUT OF OURSELVES? We do not find any answers in the Gathas to above question, but the answers are preserved in the Younger Avesta - Non-Gathic Yasna 61,5 katha drujem nis ahmat nasma HOW CAN WE DRIVE DECEIT OUT OF OURSELVES? nish nashama saoshyanto drujem WE CAN DRIVE (DECEIT) OUT, BY ACTING AS A BENEFACTOR katha nish.nashma HOW CAN WE DRIVE (IT) OUT (AS A BENEFACTOR)? yatha him janama... vishpaish hacha karshvan yais hapta BY CASTING OUT OF ALL THE SEVEN CONTINENTS Further answer is given in Zamyad Yasht 19,12 nish tat paiti druxsj nashaite yadhat aivi chit jagamat DECEIT WILL BE DRIVEN OUT TO THAT PLACE FROM WHERE IT ORIGINALLY COME FROM We may ask: Which is "that place". The answer is lost in the extant Gathas as well in the entire extant Avesta, but is preserved in the Pahlavi Bundahishn: "DECECIT WILL BE FINALLY DRIVEN OUT TO THE PLACE FROM WHERE IT HAS ORIGINATED, WHICH IS THE DARK ABYSMAL ABODE OF AHRIMAN (ANGRA MAINYU)". Ushtavaiti Gatha Y43.3 at hvo vengheus vahyona na aibi jamyat MAY THAT MAN ATTAIN BETTER THAN GOOD Non-Gathic Yasna 59.31 jamyat vo vanghaot vanghu MAY YOU ATTAIN BETTER THAN GOOD Ushtavaiti Gatha 45.7 yehya sava ishaonti radangho (The truthful one) WHOSE BENEFITS THE BOUNTEOUS ONES IMPLEMENT Non-Gothic Yeans 7.24 ashy no patio jam at yeshiva save shanty fandango WITH TRUTH WE APPROACH ONE WHOSE BENEFITS BOUNTEOUS ONES IMPLEMENT This interesting Gathic idea is seen in Visperad 18.2 vispayumcha ushtatateim yazamaide, ya narsh sadra dravato BOUNTEOUS BENEFITS ARE REVERED, (BUT) WHICH ARE 'WOES' FOR HERETICS Note: The religion of Zarathushtra has survived three millennia and none has ever succeeded in subverting it. Two powerful heretics Mazdak and Mani have come and gone but Zoroastrianism is still the living religion. It has survived and will survive by its inheritant strength. Even the accursed Alexander could not destroy it and has met his doom. Similarly marauding Arabs could not demolish it. We have shown that the whole corpus of Avesta together with the Gathas reflect the teachings of our Prophet Zarathushtra and those who advocate discarding the Younger Avesta do not know what they are talking about. "FRAJAFT PAD DARUD UD SHATIH UD RAMISHNIH" "Ending with tranquility, and joy and in peace" The Continuum of Gathic Teachings in the Younger Avesta and Pahlavi Texts - Part III Dear respected members: Here are the teachings from Spentamainyu Gatha being continued in the Young Avesta and Pahlavi Literature Spentamainyu Gatha Y47,2 hizwa uxdhaish vangheus eeanu manangho armatoish zastoibya shyaothana verezyat oya chisti hwao pata ashaya mazdao The actions of right-mindedness (performed) with hands and (inspired) by the utterances of tongue in pursuit of good thought, one performs with realization that, "He, Mazda is the father of truth" The above Gathic teaching is expanded in Pursishniha 28 - (the Pahlavi part is in the bracket) mananghascha (a)humaiti hizwascha huxta zastayascha varshti arthuyo.varshti (fraron kunishn varzet ohrmazd nazdikih i o tan i mardom) On account of good thinking of mind, on account of good utterance of tongue, on account of good actions of hand (one practices upright deeds with realization that Ohrmazd is near to the body of man) Spentamainyu Gatha Y47,4 kaseushchit na ashaune kathe anghat A man of even little means shall behave kindly to the truthful one. Same teaching is continued in Vendidad 18,34 na kasvikamchina ... naire ashaone A man of little means will behave kindly to the truthful men Spentamainyu Gatha Y48,1 asha drujem venghaiti Truth can defeat deceit Same thought is reflected in: Non-Gathic Yasna 80,5 vainit ... asha drujem Truth will defeat deceit and in the Zamyad Yasht (Yasht 19,95) vanat asha akam drujim Truth will overcome evil deceit Spentamainyu Gatha Y48,2 kat ashva venghat dregvantem Will the truthful one defeat the deceitful one? (No answer) Hormazd Yasht (Yt 1,2 asks the same question and gives the answer kat ashva mazda vanat dregvantem Will the truthful one defeat the deceitful one? ashava vanat drujim Truthful will defeat deceit ashava vanat dravatem Truthful one will defeat the deceitful one Spentamainyu Gatha Y48,5 yaozdao mashyai aipi zathem vahishta The best (insight) which purifies progeny for mankind This Gathic thought is explained in non-Gathic Yasna 65.2 (= Ardui Sur Yasht - Yasht 5,2) ya vispanam hairishinam zathai garetha yaozdaiti ya vispao hairishish huzamito dadhiti (Ahura Mazda) purifies the wombs of all females for birth and makes all females bring forth well This is continued and explained in depth in Visperad 5,21 'yaozdao mashyai aipi zathem vahishta' haa yaozdao ... ya daena mazdayasnish yo hawam daenam ya yaozdaite humataishcha huxtaishcha hwarshtaishcha yo hwam anghvham yaozdaite 'The best (insight) which purifies progeny for mankind' same as this (our) Mazdayasni religion is purifying him who purifies his own religious views with good thoughts, good words and good deeds, who then purifies his own vital energy (life). Spentamainyu Gatha Y 49,3 antare vispeng dregwato haxmeng (antare) mruye I banish all the deceitful from amongst our fellowship. Non-Gathic Yasna 19,15 antarecha drawantam amruta From amongst us the deceitful are banished Spentamainyu Gatha Y 48,6 at akhyai asha mazdao vakshat Mazda shall make the plants grow for her (cow) with truth Vendidad 11,6 and 17,5 and Frahang-i Oim 4d, reflect the same Gathic thought asha mazdao urvarao vaxshat Mazda makes the plants grow with truth Spentamainyu Gatha Y48,7 asha vyam yehya hithaush na spento Let him whose partner is the holy man be protected by truth (vyam = protection) Question arises: Who will be protecting the unborn in mother's womb? No answer is found in the Gathas Answer is given in the Fravardin Yasht (Yt 13,11) vidharaem ... barethrishwa puthra paiti-vereta apara.irithanto aa datat vidhataot vyahwa urwat.chaem asticha gaonacha dravadhacha uruthvascha paidyaoscha frawaxshaoshcha ... In pregnant women I (Ahura Mazda) protect (= vyahwa) the conceived children, not dying till (fixed time) of delivery; in their wombs I (Ahura Mazda) put together bones, and hair etc. Spentamainyu Gatha Y49,3 The first sentence needs complete understanding because here, ahmai varenai = 'this belief, this orthodoxy of ours' is opposed to takaeshai ... druxsh = false doctrine, heresy This is further explained in detail in non-Gathic Yasna 12,7: (known as the confession of Faith) ya varaano aas zarathushtro ... ta varenacha tkaeshacha mazdayasno ahmi Of this orthodoxy of our belief, which was of Zarathushtra, through that belief and doctrine I am a Mazdayasnian Spentamainyu Gatha Y49,7 ke xvaetush dataishh anghat ye verezanai vanghvhim dat frasastim Which family will be there who by following your (i.e. Ahura Mazda's) laws will give the community a good reputation This thought is reflected in Drvasp (Gosh) Yasht - Yasht 9,26 about Hutosa, (Hutoxi) wife of Kavi Vishtaspa hutaosam ... ya me varezanai vnaghvhim dat frasastim Hutosa, will give a good reputation to my community Spentamainyu Gatha Y49,11 drujo demane haithya anghen astayo They (deceitful) will be real guests in the house of deceit (i.e. hell) This is echoed in Vendidad 6,108 and 14,18 drujo nmane haithya anghen astayo They (deceitful) will be real guests in the house of deceit (i.e. hell) Spentamainyu Gatha Y50,5 aroi zi xshma mazdao asha ahura aibi dareshta awishya awangha Since you delight through truth, O Ahura Mazda with visible and manifest help This is continued in Fravardin Yasht (Yasht 13,146) tao no ... thrayente aivi dareshtaish awabish They (i.e. fravashis) protect us with visible help Spentamainyu Gatha Y50,6 ye mathra vachem mazda baraiti The manthra-keeper who raises his voice in reverence This is continued in Meher Yasht (Yt 10,85) yatchit nemangha vachim baraiti Be it that (a man) who raises his voice with reverence The Continuum of Gathic Teachings in the Younger Avesta and Pahlavi Texts - Part IV Vohuxshthra Gatha 51,11 asks a Question: 'ke urvatha sptamai' Who is the man (who can be an ally) of Spitaman (Zarathushtra)? The non-Gathic Yasna Y19.14 privides the answer: "drigubyo vastarem cheenastee yatha urwathem spitamai' He who is the shepherd to the poor, that (man) is the ally of Spitama (Zarathushtra) This is further elaborated in Yatha Ahu Viryo Vohuxshthra Gatha Y51,13 'yehaya urwa xraodaiti chinwato peretao akao xvaish shyaothanaish hizwascha ashahya naswao patho' His soul facing (him) at the Account Keepers' Bridge (chinwato pereta) will make him tremble for he has strayed from the path of truth by his own actions and those of his tongue This is echoed in Vendidad 5,4 'jit ashem xraodat urwa pesotanus frena' Truth will make the living soul of sinful tremble Furthermore Meher Yasht Yt 10,86 enlarges this Gathic thought 'mithro ... fraourvaesayaith ashahe paiti pantam' Meher (yazata) will take us back on the path of truth Vohuxshthra Gatha Y51,15 'garo demane ahura mazdao jasat pouruyo' In the House of Song (paradise), Ahura Mazda, the Primal One, comes to the faithful In Ardui Sur Banoo Nyaish - Ny 4,8 and Vishtasp Yasht, 39 - same Gathic thought is reflected 'garo nmane ahuro mazdao jasat paoriyo' In the House of Song (paradise), Ahura Mazda comes to the faithful Vohuxshthra Gatha Y51,22 'yehya moi ashat hacha vahistem yesne paiti vaeda mazdao ahuro yoi aonghrecha henticha ta yazai xvaish namenish pairicha jasai vanta' Mazda Ahura knows the person whose best attitude is seen by me (i.e.Zarathushtra) at worship, in accordance with truth. Those who have existed and exist, I will worship with such my own people by calling their names, and I will approach them with affection. The above Gathic verse served as the basis for archaic Young Avesta; Yenghe Hatam Y27,15 prayer Visperad 13,6 also shows this Gathic thought: 'yaesham no ahuro mazdao ashawa yesne paiti vangho vaedha aesham zarathushtro anghu(sh)cha ratuscha' We whose better (accomlishments) the truthful Ahura Mazda knows, to be displayed at worship, (as) our Lord and RATU is Zarathushtra |
Добавлено: Ср Мар 16, 2005 3:34 pm Заголовок сообщения: | |||||||
"Младоавестийцев" не существует. Я бы попросил модератора обратить внимание на использование со стороны джайна выдуманных кличек. От Администратора Форума: термин "младоавестийцы" действительно не используется. Заратуштрийцы с почтением относятся не только к Младшей Авесте, но и к Старшей Авесте, включая Гаты, и к корпусу пехлевийских текстов. Существуют сложившиеся термины "традиционный зороастризм" и "реформистское направление".
Казуистика и демагогия. Мухаммад создал аль-Куран. Это единственное произведение, которое можно приписать ему. Однако, существуют признанные хадисы, содержащие в себе высказывания пророка. Многих вещей, которые есть в хадисах, нет в Коране. ?з этого не следует то, что содержащееся в хадисах не принадлежит Мухаммаду. Совершенно аналогичная ситуация с Авестой. Заратуштра пропел Гаты о самом возвышенном, что его составляло его послание. Вся остальная Авеста - это по сути хадисы - пересказ его откровения о вещах более конкретных словами его последователей. Гаты и Вендидад, кроме того - совершенно разные жанры. Претензии Джайна похожи на претензии к Пушкину, мол, почему это у него в Повестях Белкина нет той поэтики и лиричности, как в Бахчисарайском фонтане!
Никак из приведенных фактов это не следует. Что во времена Кирдера, что тем более во времена Вех-Шапура никто уже не умел составлять законченные сочинения на авестийском языке, ниже вставлять предложения на нем уровня грамотности хотя бы Вендидада. В Вендидаде и Яштах отражена географическая и историческая ситуация времен задолго до вышеозначенных "злодеев", торчащих еретикам как кость в горле. Не существует никаких свидетельств авторства Кирдера или тем более Вех-Шапура в Авесте. Так что все эти "анализы" можно считать неумной, но очень нужной для "очистки пространства" для собственных выдумок, клеветой. |
Добавлено: Пт Мар 18, 2005 7:45 am Заголовок сообщения: | |
Несколько вопросов в Тему: 1. Верят ли почитатели Авесты и пехлевийских текстов в океан Ворукаша, рыбу Кара, трехногого осла Хара, дерево Виспобиш, Сенмурва, Чамраош, деление на кешавары, войну созвездий и комет? 2. Если да, то вопрос: у животных типа рыбы Кара и трехногого осла Хара, Сенмурва и Чамраош есть только фраваши или есть и урван? 3. Если у собаки нет урвана, то почему в Видевдате ей назначены наказания, подобно провинившимся людям, совершившим сознательное преступление? 4. Если в зороастризме никогда не было кровавых жертв и массового общенародного истребления "храфстра", о котором писали греки, то как истолковать Видевдат 14.1 - 10? |
Добавлено: Пт Мар 18, 2005 8:44 am Заголовок сообщения: | |||||
Показания греков не могут быть более ценными для последователя религии, чем священные книги самой этой Веры. Я уж не вспомню в какой теме, но не так давно цитировалось, что о рождении Заратуштры говорили источники будистские и христианские. Притом сам-то сюжет напоминает то, о чем мы знаем из Динкарда, но вот выводы весьма и весьма. А вот массовое уничтожение храфстра - тараканов на предприянии общепита - это как? ?ли как "Люди в черном", надо им защитника из коцмоса? Выбачай, но я не готов к тому, чтоб у меня по квартире пеши ходили мыши и тараканы и комары и мухи заслоняли собой божий свет. Поэтому "в день Дин уничтожай вредных созданий" (а я так думаю, что в каждый день хорошо бы их уничтожать). Почитатели пехлевийских текстов не только "верят " в
но и знают что стоит за этими словами. Человек, способный допустить, что Господь Бог не ходит по тучам в белых тапочках, с легкостью меня поймет. Всякий же желающий разобраться в названном более приложив некоторые усилия может узнать, что стоит за этими и многими другими словами и названиями. Ответ о наказаниях собаке вытекает не из того, обладает ли она урваном, а из знания о том, каковы свойства собаки.
сама констатация факта того, что есть или нет чего-либо, ни о чем еще не говорит, просто указывает на особенности названого нами творения. |
Добавлено: Пт Мар 18, 2005 9:29 am Заголовок сообщения: | |
QUOTE(Mamay @ 18.03.2005, 10:44) Показания греков не могут быть более ценными для последователя религии, чем священные книги самой этой Веры. |
Цитата: |
А вот массовое уничтожение храфстра - тараканов на предприятии общепита - это как? ?ли как "Люди в черном" надо им защитника из коцмоса? Выбачай, но я не готов к тому, чтоб у меня по квартире пеши ходили мыши и тараканы и комары и мухи заслоняли собой божий свет. Поэтому "в день Дин уничтожай вредных созданий" (а я так думаю, что в каждый день хорошо бы их уничтожать) |
Цитата: |
Почитатели пехлевийских текстов не только "верят"... но и знают что стоит за этими словами. |
Цитата: |
Ответ о наказаниях собаке вытекает не из того, обладает ли она урваном, а из знания о том, каковы свойства собаки. |
Цитата: |
сама констатация факта того, что есть или нет чего-либо, ни о чем еще не говорит, просто указывает на особенности названого нами творения. |
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